Did you watch South Park’s 200th episode and its successor? If so, continue reading. If not, watch the two then come back with an understanding of the context.

Basically, the religion of peace is on its time of the month again and has again displayed its title as the motherlord of artistic criticism. To protect the legends that make South Park, the Internet has uptaken a safety in numbers approach to depict the prophet Muhammad in creative ways, ergo Everybody Draw Mohammed Day, ranging from the intentionally offensive to intentionally inoffensive. I’m not a fan of freedom of speech, if I came into power tomorrow there will be a lot quotas on speech but that’s a different story. However, when an ideology comes to take this fundamental human right away from us with the threat of random violence, that’s when I get mad.

Ladies(?) and gentlemen, let me give you exhibit A:
Picture
This is Muhammad, this is my impression, this is suspiciously similar to the 4chan face. Don’t be a pussy, make your own.
Picture
As said, there are limits to free speech.
 


Comments

Shamir
21/05/2010 7:13pm

It's just disrespectful to the religion, it's part of the belief. You see how Christians often have pictures/statues of Jesus, Muslims don't do that of the Propher Muhammad (peace be upon him) because Muhammad didn't ever want to be worshipped. So for the billion Muslims who respect that rule and don't draw the Prophet (pbuh) it's just disrespectful for you to go and disobey that rule.

Why else would people draw the Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) face unless they're intentionally trying to be disrespectful to the muslims?

Reply
TomRed link
21/05/2010 10:17pm

I acknowledge that it is disrespectful to Islam. Islam prohibits depictions of Muhammad, I understand, that’s fine. You can have that rule, but it is wrong to restrict our freedom of expression in depicting him because it is against Islam.

Say if I were a member of a religion that, I don’t know, prohibited wearing shoes on Mondays due to a historical and symbolic reason, and wearing shoes would be highly disrespectful. Would you honestly think that it is right to impose that rule on everyone, whether or not they are members of that religion?

Freedom of expression is a fundamental human right, if you are going to dispute that then I am not going to argue with you further.

OK, say if instead what you are arguing for is that depicting Muhammad should not be allowed if it is intentionally disrespectful. It might not be very nice, in the same way that insulting your looks may not be, but the right of freedom of expression outweighs any hurt feelings here.

The whole point of this mass depiction day was to express the freedom of expression and to protect the creators of South Park for depicting Muhammad, watering down them as targets for death threats (which was a significant problem, especially due to the death of Theo van Gough). Some of them were intentionally offensive, some were drew as a stick figure to be intentionally inoffensive, but all of which were in the reasons stated above.

In general, some depictions are for humour (like the Danish cartoons), some are for other reasons (for example, the first time South Park depicted Muhammad was due to the Super Best Friends episode, using the major religious figures, and had nothing to do with intentionally depicting him).

I apologise about the length of the response but I hope you can be reasonable with me here. To summarise, I have my beliefs, you have yours. I won’t impose on you, you won’t impose on me.

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Shamir
23/05/2010 4:56pm

I do completely understand freedom of speech.

The issue I have is the intention of the 'artist'; you seem to have considered my opinion that there intentions must have something to do with causing offense.

"It might not be very nice, in the same way that insulting your looks may not be, but the right of freedom of expression outweighs any hurt feelings here."

It would be fair for the victim in this case to be angry with the insulter (is that a word? :P). Really a Muslim should first be polite in their request for this not to occur, but if there is persistence on the other person's part, it's justifiable for Muslims to get angry, after all, the Prophet (pbuh) and Allah are more dear to them than anything else. Personally I think that the Prophet (pbuh) would have done this (i.e. politeness first). Let me give you an example (my narration isn't exact but the events are still there):
A man once entered the mosque and began to relieve himself (i.e. urinate). The Prophet (pbuh) told his companions, “Do not put a halt to his urinating, but instead leave him.”

They left him alone until he finished urinating.

The Messenger of Allaah called him over and said to him, “Any kind of urine or filth is not suitable for these masjids. Instead they are only [appropriate] for the remembrance of Allaah, the Prayer, and the recitation of the Qur’aan,” or this is near to what the Messenger of Allaah said.

He (saw) then issued an order to a man from the people, who then came with a bucket of water, which he poured over the [effected] area [of the maosque].

As you can see the Prophet was very tolerant, he didn't issue a death threat. SO, Muslims of today should also have this tolerance; perhaps they immediately react with anger because they thought these artists already knew of the Islamic stance on this issue.

The thing is it's a pervasive knowledge that Muslims really dislike images of the Prophet (pbuh); if the artists didn't know the first time, the muslims should merely tell them that this is wrong, and is not something appreciated by the Islamic community. If it persisted then of course you're intentionally offending the Muslims.


With regards to your example of a religion that "prohibited wearing shoes on Mondays", that's quite a different issue. Your speaking of things which everybody has something to do with (i.e. the shoe). For example, in Islam we don't eat pork, we don't prohibit non-muslims from that because it doesn't affect us, you have freedom in that issue. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is intrinsically linked to Islam, there is no practical need for a non-muslim to ever make him a source of jest by disrespecting him, why do you HAVE to use the Prophet (pbuh) is there no other figure you can use without causing offense?

I hope I haven't angered you at all, that was not my intention.

Reply
Shamir
23/05/2010 5:03pm

Also with regards to freedom of speech, even that has it's issues, ( I largely agree with it) let me give you an example:

A group of people decided to march around the US screaming severely racist insult about Martin Luther King; what reaction exactly would you expect on the part of the African community, no wait, almost everybody would have strong reactions and I wouldn't be suprised with death threats.

Again, I myself don't agree with death threats for those who draw the Prophet (pbuh) but I completely understand why they're there.

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Shamir
23/05/2010 5:40pm

MY apologies for the third comment without response, but with regards to freedom of speech I think I gave the wrong impression.

People during the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did insult him profusely. I've heard of people who would follow the Prophet (peace be upon him) whilst he was teaching people about Islam, the Prophet (peace be upon him) didn't attack these people, he simply ignored it.

So now, after pondering the issue I disagree completely with the death threats and think that these Muslims are forgetting the manners of the person they're trying to defend. I am still angered by the drawings and still agree completely with any non-violent statements against them.

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Shamir
23/05/2010 5:48pm

And a fourth post! I just read your summary "I have my beliefs, you have yours. I won’t impose on you, you won’t impose on me."

This is very much an Islamic teaching ;) There is a chapter in the Qur'an called, Al-Kafiroon, it goes like this:

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Say: O ye that reject Faith! (1) I worship not that which ye worship, (2) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (3) And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, (4) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (5) To you be your Way, and to me mine. (6)
-Translated by Yusuf Ali


SO, Muslims should not force others not to draw the Prophet (peace be upon him), they should try to stop them non-violently, with words and also they shouldn't be pleased with it.

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TomRed link
24/05/2010 11:07pm

I’ll be brief to conclude this. I’m essentially arguing for it to be ALLOWED for people to depict Muhammad, criticise Islam, even spit at the fact of Islam. Consequently, Muslims should be allowed to express their anger (verbally, obviously). Of course, it may not be right to depict Muhammad to only intentionally piss of the Islamic community, but it’d be worse to restrict the right of freedom of expression in such a case.

Legitimate criticism of Islam is only healthy, as with criticism of everything.

I don’t think South Park did it to intentionally offend. I believe they picked on the idea of the media’s impotence in criticising Muhammad (or Islam for that matter) and applied it to their habit of making fun out of celebrities. The purpose of Everybody Draw Mohammed Day was, I think:
1. To express the right of freedom of speech.
2. To water down the death threats to the creators of South Park.
3. A bit of fun.

Funnily enough, your verse on your fourth post was discussed here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyNQ1zc-q74

Reply
Shamir
25/05/2010 10:34am

Ok now I see our only real point of clash is which we prioritize.

You say freedom of speech outweighs intentional offense.

I say there is no point to intentionally offend someone so why do it in the first place?
To be honest I despise most South Park episodes for that reason anyway.

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TomRed link
25/05/2010 11:43am

As for South Park, I could get offended if they played on something that personally affected me, but the chances are I’d still watch them because they’re funny.
/thread

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